Recumbent Anthology: Industry Interviews
Paul Atwood of the BikeE Corporation
by Kelvin Clark
Editors Note: Kelvin Clark is the proprietor of Angletech in Woodland Park, Colorado. Kelvin is one of our industrys most respected recumbent dealers specializing in custom spec bikes as well as manufacturing his own machines. Kelvin has been in the business for yearspredating even RCN, Angle Lake Cycle even sold Avatars in the early 1980s. In his new column, Recumbent Anthology, Kelvin has offered to interview recumbent industry personalities for RCN. He has several in the cue for upcoming 1999 issues and hopefully beyond.
Kelvin has done all of the interviews live and had them transcribed from tape, and supplies them to RCN pretty much as you read below. We all owe Kelvin a great deal of gratitude for this very time consuming process.
Paul Atwood is one of the original founders of the BikeE Corporation. He is well known in HPV racing circles as well as around the NW from the early days of recumbent cycling (1980s). Both Paul (and Kelvin Clark) were instrumental in my deciding to start RCN. Paul was the co-designer of the original BikeE and suspension AT, and as the head of BikeE R & D, the new NX or Next Generation model. The NX is Pauls baby. Whereas many designers are resting on their laurels and revamping somewhat dated designs, Paul Atwood is a recumbent designer for our timedare I say the new breed of recumbent designer. The BikeE is a very successful and popular design with almost a cult-like following. The BikeE may very well may be the most popular enthusiast recumbent made in the world today,and Paul Atwood is an unsung hero of this design Well, unsung until today that isBob Bryant, RCN Publisher.
KCInterviewer: Kelvin Clark
PaulPaul Atwood
KC: Whats going on with BikeE for 99?
Paul: The big news is were finally steering the company as far as product development. There are core groups at BikeE committed to marketing and to product development, and do it with a passion. Weve reached a point now where finally we have the resources. We can actually build things instead of just talking about them.
We looked at last year, losing sales to some of the competition because we didnt have a model for customers to step up to. We said, We need a bike in the $1800-$2000 range. Boy, did we hear the flak! So we went and built it, and pretty soon everyone in the company said Weve got to sell this. Dealers are telling us, You know, we can sell this. Now weve come to the show, were selling these bikes, its great! Another affirmation we do actually have a clue about what were doing!
This year weve gone both directions. By going to Giant, weve cut the cost of our base model (CT-2) by 1/3, from $995 to $650, and weve added a bike to really lust after (NX). Its got the hydraulic discs, and all the good stuff, and at a price people are willing to pay. Its good for us because in the past weve been so price conscious. This is our first year of profitability. Five years of losing money is a scary thing, and there are a few of us who always looked at that and said If we could get a better and more expensive model out there, and we could actually make some money on a smaller volume productand now were going to prove it. I hope that were actually getting to the point where we can explore the possibilities more, rather than having such a rigid doctrine of how its going to be. Letting broader markets for dealers decide how its going to be.
KC: What is your position at BikeE?
Paul: Director of product development. Basically it means that Im the guy that often will come with an idea and say, What if we did this? And if we get some positive response, Im the guy that has to make it happen.
In the case of the Giant project, Im the guy who was the front man for the company. I had to go to Taiwan and make sure they knew how to do it, visit all the vendors, establish a relationship. Ive actually had 3.5 weeks in Taiwan this year, and its been fabulous. A learning experience, really incredible. The culture is so different and of course shattered all the stereotypes (laughs). There a few of them that are true, its pretty darn dirty. The people, and the way they relate to each other and the way they do business is just incredible, we have a lot to learn.
KC: So, they have a respectful way of doing things?
Paul: Very much so, over there its a big family. The Giant family. When I go over there, Im not just dealing with Giant, but Giant has a network within maybe a 25 miles radius300 bicycle manufacturers, parts vendors, frame manufacturers, whatever, and they all work together. Giant will say, theres a specialist that can do this better than we can do it. Call him up, hes there in an hour, the president of the company is there. The Taiwan government, when they established the ROC, they started from scratch, and said how do we bring prosperity to our people? They decided that the best way to do that was to empower them. Programs like family factories, which encouraged families to establish their own manufacturing businesses. This was in the 1950s, and those have grown up now, and become full fledged and very capable manufacturing concerns that have grown their own families. I guess the big thing is business over there is not about this deal or that deal, its about the relationship, the lifetime relationship. The way the companies are guided philosophically, especially Giant, Tony Lo (president) is incredible, and it filters down. I have yet to meet anyone in the Giant company who is not happy with their position in life, even though they work very hard, 6 days a week, 65 hours a week is average. Saturday is a full day, 3 out of 4. They have long weekends, 2 days off in a row! Its been a real eye opener, being over there.
KC: There used to be a time when Taiwan was thought of in a low quality sense. Have you been disappointed about the capability factor?
Paul: Not at all, because were working with Giant. If that werent the case, my job would be much more difficult, Id have to be fluent in Mandarin and I would be living over there part of the time. As it is I have staff at Giant that act as liaisons for us. They have good English, and a great understanding of who can do what. They take care of things for us. So it means I dont have to live there. I could spend more time there, we would be better off if I did. But it will come, somebody will be over there more. Its really an inevitable part of this industry. Once youve experienced over there, you understand that. Theres no way we can do business here, I dont have the 300 vendors an hour from my office. The entire island has that lifetime commitment
KC: Well lets step back in the past a little bit.........see where we go here. Where was the beginning of your recumbent seed planted?
Paul: Probably 78 or 79. Cyclist Magazine (now defunct) did some great pictures of HPV racing, and then Bicycling did some coverage of the HPV championships. I was living in Seattle, and eventually got connected with Jim Weaver (Counterpoint), that wouldve been 83. I cant remember the first year Jim came out with the Opus......
KC: That was 83 actually.
Paul: It would have been about that time, as I think Jim was taking bikes out to HPVish things himself around that time. Yeah, 84 was the first time I went to an HPV event when Jim invited me to join his team. We went back to Indianapolis, and of course, being part of the Championship totally hooked me because I had been living without a car for some time by then, and was committed to bicycles. Obviously this was more functional, more fun, faster, and they were free thinkers. The key issue was not to have the limitations, being free to pursue an idea, and see if it works.......
Jim Weaver gets all the credit for turning me on to all this, and as a life model, creating his own business, and pursuing his dream, he really did a lot for me. It wasnt long after I met him that I quit working for other people. It was within a year of getting involved with him, I would guess.
KC: Does the NW HPV Association fit into this......
Paul: Oh sure! Tom McDonald was a key part of what Jim was doing at the time, and he dragged me into it. I didnt know anything about organizing people, I was, and still am in a lot of ways, a loner, but he sure taught me a lot. His enthusiasm and commitment really spurred me on. Im really proud to have been involved with him, the projects that he did.....Expo 86 was amazing!
KC: That was neat, I remember that.
Paul: (laughs) The race from Seattle to Portland, that was a real high point, Steve Delaire out there ready to do a 200 mile race in his flip flops, Pete Penseyres.....
KC: What about the Roots in the Sky thing. Number one, where did Roots In The Sky come from as a concept, the name?
Paul: Its the title of a record album from the group Oregon. Ive always been a wood worker, so I suppose the tree image, the root image has something to do with that. I cant really put into words what it means except creative freedom.........
KC: What did you do with Roots In The Sky for people who dont know?
Paul: (laughs) It began as, I guess, part of reason for the name was that it wasnt limiting. The state requires you to have some business name, and I didnt really want to use my own name, so I looked at that and said well, I dont know what Im going to do yet, but Im damn well not going to work for other people......I actually started out building furniture, and discovered that was a pretty difficult way to make a living, I had no capital resources.
KC: What kind of furniture was that?
Paul: The one product that actually earned me some money was a kneeling chair, an evolution of a Balens chair.
KC: Oh yeah, I used to have a Balens chair......
Paul: Funny thing is all these years later, I walk into the seat vendor in Taiwan and theres a Balens chair they make the cushions for! That was part of it, and then doing craft fairs with boxes & knick knacks, that sort of stuff. Then it eventually evolved into Quick Disc, which was the lycra wheel covers, and that was a real experience, because it taught me so much about the patenting process, taking your product to market, licensing and all of that. Ultimately, lost a lot of money, had to suffer through the years of being really, really poor. I managed to survive that and turn things around. Im a long way from wealth, but certainly feel Im living an abundant life now. I have to say its because I followed my heart. So Roots In The Sky was really about freedom. Growing up in American society, they dont teach you can stand up for yourself, do what you want and make a living at it.
Now, the funny thing in Taiwan is, and in China in general I think is, although there is this group consciousness, group mind, vs the individual mind like we have in the US, they are encouraged to create their own abundant/trust way of making a living, its difficult for me to put it into words, but so radically different from what we have here.
KC: So theyre cultivating independence as a good thing vs. a threat .....
Paul: And yet, the United States is the land of independence, but were not encouraged to create our own place in the world. College encourages you to lock into a corporation.
KC: Lets talk about seeking your fortune......there was a time when you kinda put your knapsack on your shoulder and you moved to Oregon.
Paul: I was never happy living in Seattle! I Ioved the geography, the mountains, Puget Sound, the proximity to Canada, all that, I certainly miss that, but living without a car in a city like that is not much fun (laughs). The weather left something to be desired. I was born and raised in Bakersfield, California, and I was pretty happy with that dry, hot climate. Even though thats not where I live now, at least theres a little more sun! Things had just played their course, I was listening to my heart, and it was obvious it was time to go. Theres no rational reason why I moved to Corvallis. I spent one day there. I checked out the library, the food co-op, some of the community, and concluded I could be happy there. So, I went back home and mulled it over, packed myself up with no visible means of support, not much money in my pocket. I landed, found a house to rent in October, on the phone, when the students were all moving back, and students are half the population in Corvallis. Finding a house to live in 300 miles away was a miracle in itself. Everything unfolded from there. I just started introducing myself to the community, finding people interested in HPVs, I walked into Dave Uhlmanns office one day (a BikeE founder with Paul and Richard Rau), a professor at OSU who I had happened to know had an interest. After a half an our of talking about bikes and HPVs, he asked me why I was there. I said because I was meant to be there, and he gave me this look like I was from outer space! Now he looks at me and says now I know what you mean (laughs)! It all fell into place.
KC: So, with Dave Uhlman, and you and Richard Rau..........
Paul: Richard Rau was the first guy I knew when I came to Corvallis.
KC: You knew Richard before you came to Corvallis......
Paul: From organizing the Portland Event, 1990 HPV Championship, I traveled down to Portland a number of times as part of the HPV organizing committee, especially the practical vehicle competition, where my interest was. I knew Richard, I visited him on the way home from a trip. He was just setting out on his own, manufacturing handcycle attachments for wheelchairs, the Cyclone, which turned the wheelchair into a trike with gears, he had a contract with the inventor, the inventor sold it to a wheelchair company, and all of a sudden he had some volume to deal with, he needed some help, so I jumped right in and worked with him on that. I think I did a lot to improve the manufacturing processes, efficiency, and that sort of thing.
KC: What would this year be, timeline wise?
Paul: This would be 1991. Eventually the inventor sold it, the contract ran out, we were looking around for things to do, and this was after we moved to a bigger facility to accommodate the volume. That was about the time Dave returned from a years sabbatical....
KC: Whered he go?
Paul: Holland. Hes on a years sabbatical now too!
KC: Really!
Paul: Yeah, every 7, Ive known him for awhile now, hes thinking he may not be going back. This was also about the time of ReBike. We were thinking, this recumbent market has got to happen sooner or later, maybe the ReBike is the thing to crack it open! We called Kathy (Skewis) up and ordered 10 ReBikes, lost our shirts because it cost us much to make them functional and she didnt want to hear about it. Dave comes back from sabbatical and we look at this bunch of bikes setting around, start scheming about how we can make them better. Pretty soon we start thinking we should throw them out and start over, and that birthed the first BikeE. It would be September 92
KC: The gestation of your 3 pieces of influence here.......
Paul: The first Bike, September 92, we did the napkin sketch......
KC: I mean who found the vibe that worked there?
Paul: Well Dave and I really found that we had the same thinking when it came to mechanical engineering and some specialties and design philosophies. Hes always been interested in bicycles, recumbents, but never had a deep understanding of the bicycle industry, components, frame building, the hands on aspect, but was really great at brainstorming design solutions. You find the problem , you lay out the solutions, and start filtering it . I was able to take those ideas and make them real and Richard was able to support us with a facility, equipment and purchasing. So the three of us together had the ability to take it from one idea to the next with business experience, marketing, sales and all that, but we didnt have a company, we were still just playing. It was Jan. 1. 1993 that we actually incorporated and we were sitting in the lawyers office and she said, Okay, whos the president? We all looked around at each other and said We have to have a president. Daves the oldest, so we nominated him. He quickly realized he didnt want the job. So we started scouting for a real business person, but it took 2 years to find him. We struggled a lot those first 2 years, because we didnt have any real capital. We started with $4500, which is insane, no one should start a business on $4500, much less one that requires the kind of up front expenses that manufacturing bicycles does. But somehow we went without meals and put our families through the wringers, and eventually we got to the point where there was obviously enough potential that people were interested in our business, so we attracted John Moreland. He had enough connections that he was able to bring in other investors. We had a number of small investors, who we called the true believers.
KC: So Moreland brought in the business side that you needed.
Paul: Yep! John had led several companies in the computer industry, was semi-retired at the time, and was scoping around for something to relieve the boredom, found us and decided that the bike was so much fun that the business ought to be that much fun too. But I think maybe it hasnt been that much fun for him. Its been a lot of grief.
KC: He came on in what year?
Paul: That would be spring 94. We went about a year and a half without any real business leadership. Just kind of struggling through. Our product was not that great the first years, Im not real proud of it. We did the best we could and we managed to survive. By doing that we were able to make little improvements here and there, and to dream about making the big ones.
KC: You chose a particular format design for a reason, right?
Paul: We didnt chose the design, Daves thing is the design philosophy. His approach is strongly influenced by a man named Figucci, and essentially it involves trying to identify all of the needs of the end user. Its tough to find out what they want. The most obvious was that it be easy to ride, its worthless if you cant get on it and ride away. You cant have a product and expect it to sell to a lot of people that takes a training course to be able to ride. We were coming from the Presto and the Quadraped, some of the college projects which Daves done. We had this high level of enthusiasm for the companies but, these werent bikes that we could share with most people. That was the key driving force for us, being able to have a bike and say, Here, try it.
Today the BikeE is arguably is the easiest recumbent to ride for the first time rider. Someday there will be enough of them out there that we will move on to bikes that arent quite so easy to ride that have other aspects that are conducive to higher performance or whatever. When Dave starts a new project hell come up with this whole matrix of needs and solutions and when youre done you have a picture of which solution will fulfill the most needs most effectively. Thats been really invaluable for me, to have that kind of structure and at the same time I balance that. Sometimes it can be too academic and you can study it to death. Then I say, you know, weve really got to get some feedback!
KC: Focus groups can be valuable, but after that its inspiration and....
Paul: You have to keep moving.
KC: .....You have to value your inspiration as a worthy thing.
Paul: Thats where were very different, its very logical and analytical and time weary. Sometimes Im pretty out there, but one of my core philosophies is that you can have 100 people going in the same place and theyre all going to take a different path. His path and my path are different but we both wind up in the same place. Weve come to respect each other more by recognizing that.
KC: What did the extrusion idea come from?
Paul: One of the things that we determined early on, that we recognized in each other, was the desire that anything that was to be produced was to appear simple. Elegance is one of our goals. What that says to me is that every part has to fulfill many functions. It has to all work together and has to be easily produced and has to be designed for manufacture, DFM , has to designed for assembly, DFA, to use Daves terms, all these different needs from a design. We wound up with essentially a big fat tube. Then somehow the seat has to attach to it. In the early days we took off the shelf materials, because we couldnt afford to do anything else. It evolved! It was obvious that the custom extrusion was the right thing to do. We had already defined the parameters of what this member needed to accomplish and we were doing it with multiple pieces that obviously could be integrated into one piece. Initially, we actually did look at alternatives, formed sheet material, that kind of thing, then it came down to the extrusion that in the final analysis was the right choice.
KC: One of its byproducts is the fact that you can put anybody from an 8 year old on the bike, all the way up to any size of adult.
Paul: Including 7 foot Doug! (laughs)
KC: It turned out to be a very clever thing.
Paul: Its worked out extremely well, its been one our most successful design projects. Were continuing to build on that and continuing to develop different seats for example that are modular and fit the same extrusion. The accessory bracket for which you can put all sort of things on the frame and in different locations on the frame. That kind of thing. Modularity was a key issue, expandability and being able to grow the product line down the road and be able to let it all work together.
KC: Bikes, Not Bombs, tell us about that. I have a sticker on a fairing that you made anciently and I remember you talking to me about Nicaragua and all that kind of stuff way back when. Were you involved in any of that?
Paul: Personally I actually was not all that involved, but that is the inklings of Matteo Martignoni who is a bicycle activist who sometimes lives in Petaluma, CA. He also works with his uncle who is a world renowned sculptor and right now Matteo is in India doing a project for ITDP (Institute for Transportation Development Policy). Some of his other careers, he was a frame welder for Lightning Cycle Dynamics. One of the projects that really inspired me was in Haiti, where he was doing the Bikes Not Bombs program, collecting bikes here, taking them there, with sponsorship from bicycle companies that take their old surplus inventory thats been sitting in the corner of the warehouse and giving to people who can actually do something with it. He was involved in starting Wheelchair Repair workshop in Nicaragua where there wasnt any before, people didnt even have inner tubes, that kind of thing. Russell Gasser was also involved. He was a big influence. He lived in Seattle for a few years. Hes Scottish or Irish. It touched my heart. I wasnt in a position to really do anything about it, but thats someplace Im going to go in the future as BikeE allows me a little more freedom.
KC: Tell me about the Corvallis culture, and obviously the fit is good, what is it about Corvallis?
Paul: Its good, I dont think that I could live there for the rest of my life, Im not even sure how much longer, because it is one white town! Having spent some time in Asia now, its really apparent that there is some diversity missing. After living in Seattle, there is an awful lot of diversity there, but Corvallis a wonderful blend of abundance both monetarily and intellectually because of the University. Somehow its attracted what I suppose people call a counter culture, not a radical counter cultureits kind of subdued, but you know we look at the food coop there and see a really beautiful community that gets along really well. Some coops are just hopeless, they turn into corporations or they fold because nobody can get along. In Corvallis, the co-op has been going for 25 years, although it hasnt grown to become a natural sort of supermarket kind of thing, the community that has grown with it is really wonderful. Thats important, and the way that they support local farm use. There are so many organic local farms, for example, that have grown out of the coop. A network of other kinds of activities have grown up around that, and the aspect of community is really very important to me. I dont believe that the traditional way of doing business is the best way or the only way. I believe that what you do for a living is part of how you live your life, and you cant separate them.
KC: So how do you achieve a balance? Obviously theres a business side, how do you keep that balance and having a personal side?
Paul: Id have to say that Im not really living my philosophy real well lately because I am part of a corporation, that I helped create what it is, and it is not in all aspects what I would like it to be. Thats what it means to have so many people involved. It cant be just what I want it to be.
KC: Well, how do you keep the rejuvenation factored in?
Paul: Sometimes we dont! (laughs) Its been very difficult because we have been through some pretty hard times and all of us have been ready to throw in the towel at least three or four times. Not recently, but in the first few years, and there has been plenty of pain associated with the birthing of this business. And I would say that the rejuvenation part of it has been deferred.
KC: So the recent prosperity that you talk about is finally getting clear of the red ink here thats going to allow you to bring that part in ...
Paul: Oh, yes.
KC: ... and restoration occur.
Paul: Even just reaching the point where we can establish a relationship with the biggest bicycle company in the world and I can go to Taiwan and meet all these new people and learn so much about their culture and how they do business and all the rest of it and encourage this project through and see it successful. Thats abundance, thats rejuvenating, thats prosperity. That is a reward in itself.
KC: Whats the transportation situation in Corvallis? How do people get around?
Paul: Well, Corvallis has the highest bicycle commuter rate in all of Oregon. I cant quote you the number off hand, but its amazing. Over 10%. Thats reflected on how they spend money on the infrastructure. For example, they are now putting in covered bicycle parking structures on the street. So bicycles are part of the transportation system there. A little bit of bus, a high percentage of walkers, and then there are cars, but the balance is better and it certainly is a lot healthier.
KC: So you bike to work with them.
Paul: Of course, I still dont own a car! Itll probably change in the next year or so. The kids are at an age and all of that, but Im not going to forget my commitment to bicycles. Its what keeps me sane, that has gotten me through all of this. Up in the morning and getting on my bike.
KC: DaVinci Days, thats part of Paul......
Paul: Boy, I wish I still had the energy to do all that. That was part of the rightness of being in Corvallis. Not long after I moved there I read an article in the newspaper about this festival which was dedicated to Arts, Science and Technology named after Leonardo DiVinci and it was obviously the number one event in this town. It seemed to me that HPVs and recumbents embodied all three of those, art, science and technology, so I walked into their office and I said You know, I think we need to do something, and I kind of laid out where Id been and what Id done and she said Weve been waiting for you. So they gave me a budget and I started putting the word out and we got a bunch of people to show up and we shared what we knew. It was a different kind of an HPV event in that we had 16,000 members of the public to come and see what we were doing and ride our bikes and get turned onto it all and the peak year we had 21,000 and we were the main attraction out of all the stuff that was going on. It was pretty amazing, so there is really an important part of my life and I know that it is part of the reason why there are now 200 recumbents in a town of about 45,000. Thats maybe the highest density in all of the US and thats among the residents. I think there are about one or two students that own recumbents, but when the students go away there are only like about 24,000 people in town. Its not a very big town. You can go out on your bike and see somebody else on a recumbent within half an hour any day and Ive been many days where Ill see 6 or 7. Thats pretty amazing.
KC: Okay, the recumbent industry. Ive noticed an attitude change between companies.
Paul: I hate to say it, but I dont think I have. (laughs)
KC: Last year at the invitation of Bob Bryant from RCN, we sat amongst more companies at dinner in a restaurant in Anaheim, CA. It was the first time that BikeE, Easy Racers, Ryan and Rans, everybody was there (except Vision) sitting around seemingly enjoying each others company.
Paul: We can do that, no problem.
KC: Even that seemed to be strained in the early days. It seemed, anyway.
Paul: I dont ever know that I felt that relationships were strained as long as it was a social situation. I definitely think that we could all sit down and have fun with each other. Certainly, I hope we all respect each other. We all have obviously common dreams and I would hate to ever cut off somebody who shared my vision. The business side, we have a lot of investors, a lot of money in things and we need to be careful.
KC: Do you have anything else you want to cover that hasnt come up so far?
Paul: Yeah, one thing Ill say, I sure wish Trek had done a little more homework. I think theyre shooting themselves in the foot. I was hoping they would come up with a bike that they could put into all the Trek dealers and have some success with. What I think is going to happen is that they are going to drop that bike, then Trek isnt going to have any other recumbents on the floor, and they are going to walk away. Its going to be a few more years before we get the legitimacy of having one of the big names in the business.
KC: So lets talk about this, the big players coming into the business. So Trek is going to enter the market this year,99. Theyve brought out a short wheel base bicycle and its not on target for bringing volume into the market or its just not designed for ...???
Paul: No, I think it is. Its a neat bike. Suppose you walk into a Trek dealer and youve never been on a recumbent, which most people never have, the dealers never sold a recumbent before, so how are you going to sell that bike?
KC: Its part of that easy to ride, hard to ride thing you were telling me about?
Paul: Yeah, how do you sell that bike?
KC: Trek will tell you that the mission of the bike isnt supposed to be for the beginner. Its the enthusiast Trek customer that is walking away from the Trek enthusiast bike.
Paul: Most Trek dealers are not recumbent dealers. They dont have any recumbents and they dont have any recumbent experience. You cant take an experienced bicyclist off a road bike and put him on that bike. Just as you cant take somebody off the street and put him on that bike. I think they made a big mistake.
KC: Thanks for your time.
